My Wesnoth Experiences: Part 2

The second part of my interview with BFWEnthographer.

Hi artisticdude!

thank you for your clear and detailed answer! Very interesting to read.
I quote something interesting you said which I would like to base my next question upon.

artisticdude wrote: “Perhaps my biggest gripe is that the engine isn’t as RPG-friendly as I’d like, but since Wesnoth is a TBS game that was never intended to support hard-core RPG gameplay, that gripe is rather ridiculous.”

Also other people mentioned me their wish for a more RPG-friendly game and the limits of the Wesnoth engine.

I play and know RPG myself, but I cannot grasp how the RPG engine limits the potential of creating RPG-based content…for instance in the add-on server thera are some campaigns ‘claiming’ to be RPG-like, so it seems that doing RPG content is somehow possible.

Question 3 – RPG game design.
Can you elaborate on how Wesnoth engine limits RPG-based content? Starting by reflecting on your Undead in the Sewers! what does the wesnoth engine allow you to do and what not? Are these limits ‘objective ones’ (i.e. it is impossible to code/implement those aspects through WML) or are they ‘subjective ones’ (i.e. it would be possible to code these aspects, but it requires a lot of effort/skills/time)?

Hmm. Interesting question. I’m probably not the best person to comment on this, since I’m primarily an artist and not a coder, but here’s my viewpoint on the subject, based on my understandings of Wesnoth policy, structure, and the experience I’ve gained designing ‘Undead in the Sewers!’

It is indeed possible to implement certain RPG features and structures, such as inventories and shops, using only the pre-defined WML functions that are included in the main game. However, these features rely heavily on the in-game dialogue window system, can become very clunky, and are often difficult and very time-consuming to create.

Basically, the flaws in Wesnoth RPG game design all boils down to one thing: the limitations of WML when it comes to creating RPG campaigns, which stem from the fact that Wesnoth was never intended to be an RPG game. It is possible expand the features of WML using the Lua scripting language, but Lua is much more difficult to learn than WML (which, as you know, is a markup language rather than a scripting language). I’ve never been able to learn Lua (despite several tries), so I am unable to say exactly how much it would be possible to make WML more RPG-friendly using Lua. However, I have managed to implement a Lua function that stores shroud data in between levels (it was written by melinath, who’s something of a Lua guru on the forums) into ‘Undead in the Sewers!’. This is an excellent example of how WML can be made much more RPG-friendly through Lua, but again, I am not entirely sure how far it would be possible to use Lua to make WML more RPG-friendly.

Another thing that I’d like to note, even though it doesn’t necessarily concern the code aspects of the issue, is that Wesnoth art isn’t really suitable for an RPG game. There are far too many variations in scale and perspective among the different tiers of Wesnoth art (terrain art, unit art, scenery, etc.) to tie together into a coherent portrayal of a setting for an RPG. These variations work fine in a TBS setting, and are probably even better than having all art exist on the same scale and perspective. However, like I said, these variations are far less aesthetically viable for an RPG then they are for a TBS game.

I would hesitate to name these limits ‘objective’, since it would be possible to turn the entire Wesnoth into an RPG-specific engine, but it would require many, many man-hours of work, an excellent knowledge and understanding of C++ (the language the Wesnoth engine is written in), and you would pretty much have to re-write the entire engine from the ground up. When you consider the amount of effort such an undertaking would require, it would almost undoubtably be much easier to simply write your own RPG engine from scratch. So, while I consider the RPG limits of Wesnoth to be ‘subjective’ ones, they might almost be considered ‘objective’, when one considers how many basic aspects of Wesnoth it would be necessary to change/remove in order to turn the current TBS engine into an RPG engine.

In conclusion, it is really impossible to write a Wesnoth RPG game that has all the features you see in actual RPG engines -and implements these features seamlessly and well- without fundamentally changing the nature of the Wesnoth engine (and at least some of the art assets). Wesnoth has always had some RPG elements to one extent or another, but these elements are primarily ones that mesh seamlessly and unobtrusively with the turn-based strategy gameplay that is the essence of Wesnoth.

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